The Christian Chronicle Podcast

Special Partner Edition (PAID CONTENT): Freed-Hardeman wants to take you to the Bible lands (Dr. Rick Brumback and Dr. Jonathan Moore)

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Christian Chronicle Podcast partner Freed-Hardeman University sponsored this special episode to be an open invitation to you to visit the Bible lands.

If you're a longtime listener to The Christian Chronicle Podcast, you've heard the advertisements that promote the opportunity for all students in the Freed-Hardeman University Graduate School of Theology to work an archaeological dig in the Bible lands...for just $500 out of pocket.

In this episode, you'll find out how this opportunity open to everyone (even those who are not students at Freed-Hardeman University).

Why is this important? Our guests, Dr. Rick Brumback and Dr. Jonathan Moore make the case for how visiting the places where the Bible stories took place builds personal faith and empowers and enriches Christian preachers and teachers for their ministry work.

This is your chance to deepen your faith and widen your imagination as a Christian by visiting the Bible lands with Freed-Hardeman University. 

Take your first step to the Bible lands at travel.fhu.edu and learn more at seeinghisworld.com and contact this episode's guests at rbrumback@fhu.edu and jmoore@fhu.edu.

BT Irwin:

Family and friends, neighbors, and most of all, strangers, welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast special partner edition. May what you are about to hear bless you and honor God. If you are a longtime listener to the Christian Chronicle Podcast, you know that Freed Hardman University is one of our excellent sponsors who makes it possible for you to enjoy the content we put out for you on a regular basis. Because of that partnership, Freed Hardeman University reached out to us about sponsoring a special episode about a program that can bring the Bible to life, as in it can take you to the places where the Bible stories happened. Now, we're not talking about flannel board or veggie tales or the best vacation Bible school skit ever. We're not even talking about the chosen. We're talking about you standing on the very ground where David, Samuel, and Jesus stood. How might that change your experience and understanding of Scripture? The folks at the Fried Hardeman University Graduate School of Theology think that visiting the Bible lands can be so enriching, so formative, and so illuminating to those who preach and teach the Bible, they made it part of the program for the students who study there. This is not your typical bus tour. The main event of the trip is an archaeological dig at the site where scholars believe the tabernacle stood for almost 300 years. So Fried Hardeman graduate students in theology get to dig in biblical soil for what could turn out to be artifacts that are left behind by one of the most important structures in Scripture. They visit other sites as well. In this interview, you'll hear about trips to Egypt, to Greece, to Jerusalem, and to Nazareth, Jesus' hometown, here today to tell us why they believe the church all over the world benefits so much when its preachers and teachers explore and study the Bible in the Bible lands are Dr. Rick Brumbach and Dr. Jonathan Moore. Dr. Brumbach is professor of Bible and historical theology at Freed Hardaman University, where he is the Earl D. Edwards Director of the Graduate School of Theology. He's the minister with the Christian Chapel Church of Christ in Wildersville, Tennessee, and is Secretary Treasurer for the North American Patristics Society, which I'm sure has some wild meetings. Dr. Jonathan Moore is an adjunct professor in the Freed Hardaman University Graduate School of Theology. His PhD is in biblical archaeology, and he's been digging around in the biblical dirt since 2018. Biblical archaeology and teaching at the Freed Hardaman University Graduate School of Theology are not even his day job. He is a podiatrist who runs a 12-office regional foot and ankle practice. I feel like we could just scrap talking about the Bible lands and focus on how y'all manage to have two or three full-time careers going at the same time. Dr. Brumbach, Dr. Moore, welcome to the show. So, first of all, this trip to the Bible lands is not like a bus tour to Branson or a Viking River cruise down the Jordan. It's a serious academic expedition. Tell us what grad students who go on this trip should expect to do and see.

Jonathan Moore:

We're studying the biblical world through archaeology, geography, scripture. So these students are really seeing the Bible come to life, which is kind of a cliche, but it's more than that. Because I mean ultimately these students are able to hold these things in their hand, and I think it validates a lot of what they're aiming to do and what they're seeing in the scripture. And so I love the fact that we're able to let them see these places and connect the physical objects, the material culture with the scripture. And and as someone of science, myself, and someone who believes in science, I think that every time you know each strata we dig, each museum that we go to, it it over and over again validates scripture and its historicity, which is so awesome.

Rick Brumback:

But one of the things I really appreciate is that we go to these locations and we realize that they are not just historical sites. We are in the middle of a living and vibrant culture. And you know, sometimes the the study of an Old Testament text or a New Testament text or something, that's what we're so focused on. But I think travelers, including myself in the times I've gone, have been so thrilled to get to see. Here are people living, rearing their children, going to work, you know, just living their lives in a place that is also historically significant. So there's a layered sense to that that I think is very helpful to the traveler to be able to appreciate.

BT Irwin:

The main part is the archaeological dig, right? That's the that's the main scholarly part of the the trip to the Bible lands. And tell us about tell us about that archaeological dig. What do students do? I mean, they're they're not archaeologists, they're they're preachers, you know, and ministers, but here they are doing archaeology like Indiana Jones. How does that work?

Jonathan Moore:

We we have kind of connected the students to the archaeological dig that's associated with the the Associates of Biblical Research or ABR. And this is a a group of uh it's a Christian organization that's been digging in the Holy Land for over 20 years. They've dug at uh Kirbet Makatir, which is the ancient city of I. And they've they've been in Shiloh since 2017. So you're right. I mean, we we have an opportunity to take students and they are assigned to a square, and they are literally digging, and of course, they're oriented every night by where they're at and the stratigraphy of where they're at. And of course, in Shiloh, what's so unique is that we have, of course, a lot of stratigraphy that dates back to the late Bronze I and II era, where when the Israelites arrived, when Joshua arrives in around 1400, 1406 BC, I mean, we're in that strata and we are seeing and seeing objects and pottery that is from that layer. And so we see when the Israelites came and adopted that site as the as a as a cultic site, of course, that's where the tabernacle was. That was the where worship to Yahweh was for 300 years. And so, yeah, they're doing real archaeology. This isn't this isn't them going and looking at pottery or going to a museum. They they are digging, they have gloves, they're on their hands and knees, they're moving stones because shallow is surrounded by a middle bronze wall. And the middle bronze era is, of course, the Abrahamic era. So, you know, when you read about Abraham and you read about Joshua, they're seeing that stratigraphy, and they're they're literally touching those objects from that era. And so it's a really unique opportunity. It's fantastic.

Rick Brumback:

Jonathan does a great job of preparing them before they leave a number of weeks. They have some readings, they'll have some conversations and things together to prep them for when they get there. And then, of course, there's the on-the-job training portion that they do. But when they arrive, they've already been introduced to a lot of these things so that they feel at least a little bit, you know, prepared for what they're going to do. And then, as far as it being a course, you know, this is an elective for all of them, but it's a graduate course. So when they come back, they are writing essentially a research paper or a project that might even turn into a publication, but they're doing so based upon the things that they saw and did while they were there at the dig site.

BT Irwin:

I just have to say, I'm in Detroit, and we have part of the Ishtar gate from Babylon at the Detroit Institute of Arts. And every time I go there, I want to go see it because I think, you know, did Daniel, did Daniel see this thing that I'm looking at right now? It's an amazing, amazing feeling. And and one of the most amazing things about this experience that Fried Hardeman grad students get, we've been advertising this on the Christian Chronicle podcast for a long time, is that it's it's $500. Is it really just $500, or is it $500 plus you know, airfare and all that other stuff? How does that work?

Jonathan Moore:

And this this entire experience is part of really a vision that my wife and I had when we committed this this endowment, if you will, to Fried Hardman. To for this really to be of little to no cost to them, the $500 really comes back to them in the form of a food voucher. So the $500 is really just to kind of get them to commit. So really, this trip for grad students is virtually at no cost to them. And uh, of course, we want their spouses to come, we want family members to come, and their elders to come. And so we we we want this to be an experience where it's not just the grad students, but it's others as well. And I and I'm excited to tell you that there is just recently an opportunity that's opened up for us to take uh and offer dual credit for high school kids as well through a special opportunity at Freed. And uh we we are going to Egypt this upcoming May and taking grad students there. And you know, that's a whole different experience than having your hands in the ground, but it's equally enriching and awesome. But we're gonna be taking some students that uh some high school students that that want to get that college credit and then have this experience in Egypt seeing the the these Bible lands. So it's really Freed is really doing a fantastic job of connecting students to experience and not just the typical traditional classroom. And that's why I'm so excited to be part of what Freed is doing.

Rick Brumback:

We want to offer these as really a kind of enhanced education, right? So not just the classroom, but where possible and appropriate, where people get to experience something that lends itself to the learning, enhances it. And a part of making that available is trying to arrange it so that cost is not a barrier to participation. And that doesn't mean everything can always be removed, but we always have that in mind because if we're going to offer it to our student body, uh we want to make it something that they really have a chance to participate in. And of course, the generosity of Jonathan and Kim and the Moore Discipleship missions is fantastic with regard to this trip. And we're incredibly grateful to them for that generosity.

BT Irwin:

So I, you know, I think it goes without saying that any graduate-level Bible program will prioritize immersive study of the Bible. Why does yours at Fried Hardeman University also prioritize immersive study of the Bible lands?

Rick Brumback:

But the fact is that there's nothing like being in the place where these types of things happened or unfolded. But I think even more than that, especially for us, you know, traveling as Christians, we get there, and this is not just history, but it has spiritual significance. And so to be standing and saying, I am I am on the street where Jesus walked, you know, or I may be standing in the very place where he was traveling, you know, moving with his cross toward, you know, Calvary. So there's not just the data, but but there's a really strong spiritual component with the experience of being there. And I think it has a gravitas to help make all of that other rise above just data.

Jonathan Moore:

We live in a in a in an age of extreme skepticism, of course, at uh in higher learning in general. And so I think that the best thing that we could do at at Fried Hardeman is prepare these young preachers and leaders in the church to address skepticism, modernism. And I think that every trip we take, every dig, every field survey, all of those I think just really, I think firmly not only validate what the Bible says because they're able to see it, but I think it builds a tremendous amount of faith that I think that exists and continues to grow even in their ministry when they come back. And I I think that Freed does a great job, I think among the best at preparing these guys to not not only stand for truth, but to also be able to defend the scriptures. And let me just give you an example of that. You go to any modern university and in any any secular university, you'll find someone say that the Exodus didn't happen. You'll find someone say that Moses didn't write the Pentateuch. And so, or you know, the idea of a group of uh two million people coming out of you know Egypt and coming into Canaan that's pure myth. We address those things head on and we look at the evidence for why we believe, what does the archaeology say about there being Asiatics in Egypt? What does the archaeology say about them wondering for 40 years about the conquest? You know, does the evidence stack up archaeologically with what the Bible claims? And I think over and over, demonstrate for these guys and for every who for everyone who comes that what scripture claims is true, based not upon our faith, but upon uh evidence.

Rick Brumback:

When we went to Egypt, I took photos, I was learning, I was listening, even with the things that I already knew. When I came back, I shared those things in my sermon and my Bible class teaching. And the members, they loved it, you know. And I could speak with a greater sense of knowledge and certainty, if you will, just about these things because I've been able to dig in and and show and give significance. It it just multiplies, it's not even just limited to the travelers themselves.

BT Irwin:

So, could you tell us some stories about how exploring and studying the Bible in the Bible lands has affected some of your students?

Rick Brumback:

I mentioned the uh the trip to Egypt uh for this archaeology class, and so we visited a number of significant sites, just um extraordinary to be able to see and do. So I had a student in that class, one of the ones that traveled with us. When he came back, he was completing a Master of Divinity program, and that has required internship as a part of the program. And so he we designed it at his decision making. He was going to teach an adult Bible class in looking at the Old Testament and using the things that we covered in in our travels to Egypt. Well, a part of the project for this internship was that he had to do a survey at the conclusion of the class and asking for feedback from the members. And then he shared those with me since I supervised his internship. And I know for a fact, I mean, I read the comments where they said it was clear that visiting these sites had a tremendous impact on him. Another one said it was obvious that he understood the material well, having been there, and it made a benefit for us, the adult attendees in his class. That's just one illustration of the fact that, again, it was able not only to affect him, but then expand into reaching the people that he that he preaches and teaches with and uh ministers to.

BT Irwin:

As these students go with you to the to the Bible lands, you know, they've been reading the Bible, they've been studying the Bible, they've probably, you know, watched, you know, Bible stories and movies or TV shows or whatever. What have you discovered surprises them the most when they're actually there in the Bible lands? What have you what have you seen them discover and just you know it becomes their favorite part of the trip, but it's not what they expected when they went.

Jonathan Moore:

But I think that one of the things that's most astounding is to the there's a a museum that's called the the the Egyptian Museum of Civilization. It's in Cairo, and it's a it's where most of the mummies that have been found in the Valley of the Kings have are displayed. But when we talk about who the Pharaoh of the Exodus was and who likely who, you know, the who Pharaoh's daughter who drew Moses, and when you're standing and you're looking face to face down at pr probably the face of the man who looked and and talked with Moses, or Hatshepsut, the queen who is most likely the Pharaoh's daughter who who took Moses out of the water, and you're you're literally looking down through a glass and looking at the people who looked upon Moses, that hits you. It and it hits you really well. And also to be in Shiloh and to be sitting at the gate where Eli likely sat, or to be near where the tabernacle was where Daniel came.

Rick Brumback:

And one of the things that I found the most amazing, and I this is also true in the perspective of other travelers I've talked to, is that when we read the stories, both Old Testament and you know, certainly the gospel accounts, the beginning of the book of Acts, you know, everything is situated essentially in the land of Israel, you know, today. And and you have all these layers, and not just the stratigraphy part or whatever, but I'm just talking about in general, you know, of story on top of story on top of story. And all these stories took place in a land area that is really of no bigger than about the state of New Hampshire.

unknown:

Wow.

Rick Brumback:

And it is, it's amazing. And and so that's why, you know, especially for an archaeologist like John, you know, to look and to see if you just sort of peel back a layer in the same, you know, footprint of ground, there's something significant that happened underneath that, and underneath that. And so that concentration of earth-shaking significant events that took place just right here in this little land between, is it's it's extraordinary to realize that.

BT Irwin:

You've both brought up Egypt now. When we've advertised this program on the Christian Chronicle podcast, we're most often talking about Israel. So I have to ask what everyone's likely thinking. How are conditions in Israel and Palestine affecting this program these days? How are you able to continue even during wartime?

Jonathan Moore:

Yeah, that's a great question. And I'll I'll start off by saying that the archaeological dig has for the most part continued through much of the conflict. However, as you would imagine, Fried Hardeman hasn't been in the position to allow students to allow grad students to be involved in an official capacity for the last two years. And so our first year we were in Shiloh, and as part of the dig team, I still go and I take, I actually take students, I still take groups and students to go and dig, and we tour, but but Freed has not been understandably in the position to allow that to be in an official capacity. So we have been to Egypt once. We went to Greece last year and followed the footsteps of Paul, literally from the the north and Philippi, Thessalonica, all the way down to Corinth. And and for this next year, we are going back to Egypt and again studying the Bible lands in Egypt. This year we're taking the students to Mount Sinai, St. Catharines, and the Sinai Peninsula. So they'll be climbing Mount Sinai, which takes about six hours.

BT Irwin:

Wow.

Jonathan Moore:

And so we'll we'll be doing that this year. The grad students didn't didn't get to do that last the time before, but they they will this year. So here's the thing. I I mean it's it's it I I will tell you, it's worse in Chicago, I think, in some areas than it is in Israel. I I think it's relatively safe. And I I think that that any place you shouldn't be, they will no one will let you get there. There'll be checkpoints and other things. But for the most part, 90% of Israel, it's safe to drive around, it's safe to move about. You know, obviously, you know, the it hasn't affected the dig. I mean, it has affected the dig somewhat. I mean, especially last year when there was bombs going off. I thankfully got home before they really sealed off the country. But some of my colleagues had to it's interesting, they couldn't fly out of Tel Aviv, they couldn't fly out of Tel Aviv, but they they they actually had to do a reverse exodus. They had to leave Israel, go through the Egyptian border in the north at a lot, and then leave Cairo. So they did a reverse exodus to get out of the country.

Rick Brumback:

But for the most part, it's it's it's very safe for university-sanctioned class and enrollment and all of that. They're just very careful about that. And I can appreciate that. We love the discretion and the safety of the students, is paramount. However, as Jonathan mentioned, he has been there back to Shiloh a couple of times or you know, each year. And so what he's put together that students can take advantage of as individuals, is that they can do, let's, it's either a pre or a post, just depends on the year, trip to Shiloh to participate in the dig that's an add-on for them to the class trip that was, say, Greece last year, for example. And so if an individual feels comfortable doing that and wants to, then they just work with Dr. Moore and they make the arrangements and they can end up going there to Shiloh as an individual and participating.

BT Irwin:

So, what do you hope are the long-range, long-term outcomes of this program?

Rick Brumback:

We are trying to provide this, these opportunities at all three levels. So the dual enrollment, junior and senior and high school level, the undergraduate level as well as the graduate level. And so we want to see these things continue and maybe even add. We've added some travel that's associated to church history courses, for example, that our students are going to take advantage of this coming spring break, as a matter of fact. But the other thing I would say with that is that these are not just students that are going, and that's something that we've mentioned. If there's someone else who would like to go along, they get the benefit. They get to sit in the same lectures, they are listening to the same explanations, they're seeing the same things. And so I love the fact that this is not just limited to students. Non-students, family, friends, and others are very much welcome to participate. And, you know, we're just really trying to be a kind of a lead, if you will, in being able to provide this enhanced education. Yeah.

Jonathan Moore:

Yeah, it's a beautiful answer, and I totally agree. But I I think that uh, you know, for me, I want to see this next generation of Christians, uh, especially these grad students. I mean, they are they are our future of the church. These high school kids that may be involved in dual credit, the undergrads, I mean, they they are the future of the church. And I would love to see this generation of Christian scholars and ministers really to be able to be convicted about their faith and to know that there's credibility in their faith. We need defenders of scripture. We need we need we need members of the church who who understand and really truly believe that the Bible is inspired and that it's based on an historical foundation and not a myth. And I I think that Freed is really doing a beautiful job of seeing this and I mean they're investing in the church, I think. I think they're investing in the church and its intellectual future as well as its spiritual future. I mean, the church just can't afford to abandon the world of ideas and scholarship, and and that's why I wanted to be involved. And I I know that's what Rick is passionate about is is entering into this world of ideas faithfully, intelligently, scholarly.

BT Irwin:

I want to ask each of you to to to provide what I'll call a testimony. You know, testimony is when you experience something, you see something, and it changes your life, and you're so excited to share it with someone else, to show it to someone else. And so you've both gone to the Bible lands many times. What's something that you've encountered there that made a really big impression on you? Something you're always excited to share with others every time you go back.

Jonathan Moore:

One of the things that I loved, it's our favorite thing to do. So we we go into the city. So when we take students to Israel, we we stay not far from the old city. It's walking distance. So what we do is we go into the old city at night. And you may be thinking, well, that's isn't that dangerous to go? That's probably the safest time to go because it it's not as crowded and and it's it's quiet, and yet that's when we go to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. And the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is a very famous, very old church. It's built in the Crusader times, but I I believe it to be the real true site. I think archaeology has borne this out. I think there's lots of really good scholarly evidence to support that that is the fact where Golgotha was. And that's where that's where Jesus went up on the cross, and that's where his tomb is. And you can go to a site that has that links back all the way to the fourth century AD to it being the site where Jesus was buried. I love going there at night. And every time I go there, I love seeing the look, the expressions, I love seeing the emotion of of walking at this site and being at this place where our God was killed and where he was laid to rest and where he's resurrected. And so I that to me is the most powerful. Uh, if you go to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre during the day, you can't hardly move. It's crowded, it's there's yelling and there's crying. And but going there at night, you go downstairs downstairs to a chapel that's called the chapel of Helena, and we sing, and right above us where we sing, is the clear remnant of a it's a stone stone quarry, and singing and singing praise to God right at that site is just amazing.

Rick Brumback:

I'll mention two things very briefly. Number one was I was surprised when we were filming. This is when John and I first met, and we were filming with World Video Bible School to produce Bible land passages, these um 15 to 20 minute long videos filmed on location in Israel, Old Testament and New Testament stories. Anyway, so we went to the northern part of Israel to tell Dan area. And we had been down in the central and the southern part, and it's dry, it's arid, and all of that. And we got up there, and this was in the springtime, right about Easter time, and it was rainy and it was wet. And if you had if you had blindfolded me and dropped me off and then said, Hey, you're in Seattle, Washington, I would have absolutely believed you. It was such a difference, and so in that little New Hampshire-sized country, there is such a variety of things, and you know, so I can understand why the Bible talks about the Old Testament, it talks about people choosing to move to different regions or different areas because it is really quite diverse, as you know, an ecological area. But the one thing I'll mention, the second thing is when we went to Karnak in Egypt a year and a half ago, and we are seeing the wall, and there are these cartouches, the the little labels that talked about the cities that were conquered by the Egyptians in and around Egypt or in and around Israel, and the list of names that we know from our Bibles. I took pictures, did all that. When we got back, I was supposed to be speaking on a Wednesday night uh summer series, and I had I had already given them my topic a couple of months prior and things. And so I called the preacher and I said, Is it too late for me to change? And the reason because the the topic for the entire thing, every every speaker was asked to talk, you know, your favorite sermon. And I got back and I said, Okay, I have a new favorite and I'd like to do this. And it was really profiling the things that we saw at Karnak and elsewhere and tying them directly to the Bible text and in a way to be able to say, you can trust what your Bible says and make sense out of the details. And there is external confirmation of these things, not by people who want to make it true for their own story. No, we are looking at the records of the Egyptians themselves that are confirming these kinds of things, and the audience just really engaged. I think they found that, you know, quite impressive, amazing, and that that was a great, a great teaching and moment.

BT Irwin:

Well, Dr. Rick Brumbach and Dr. Jonathan Moore lead the Biblical Archaeology Expedition for the Freed Hardaman University Graduate School of Theology. Freed Hardeman University is sponsoring this episode because Dr. Brumbach and Dr. Moore want you to consider enrolling in their graduate programs and going with them to the Bible lands. It sounds like you don't even have to be enrolled to go if you're related to someone who is going. Dr. Brumbach, Dr. Moore, how can folks get in touch or learn more if they want to explore this program with you?

Rick Brumback:

Anybody is welcome to go on these trips. Maybe there's a space limitation on the number of persons that can get into a dig site, but anybody is welcome. Don't even have to be related. So if there's somebody out there who says, I'd love to travel with fellow Christians, I'd like to go on something that's educational, faith-affirming, and with persons who know. I mean, they're going to be a great guide. We would love to hear from them. And you can certainly email me at rbrumbach, my first initial last name, rbrumbach at fu.edu. Jonathan is J Moore at Fhu.edu. There's a website that is dedicated for the university to these study abroad type of opportunities, and it's travel.fhu.edu. And if if someone visits that site and says it clicks explore the trips, you will see them listed, the ones that Dr. Moore is associated with, one that I'm going to be doing this spring in the Swiss Reformation History Tour. Anyone is welcome to go. We'd love to have you. But you can see all the study abroad opportunities for undergraduates, for graduate students, and even for the dual enrollment students as well.

Jonathan Moore:

So my wife and I, through our foundation and through our mission, we have a website called seeinghisworld.com. And that's where we post our trips. And again, many of them, or most of them, are connected to Freed and can be found on that FHU travel website as well. Right. But we uh listen, we we love the Bible, we love to teach, and that's our passion. And there's no better way to learn when they're than when you're on the site, you're looking at the looking at these places in person. And so we we just encourage anyone and everyone to join us. Most especially, we would love to see young people that want to that have interest in in the ministry and that want to learn and be part of really, I think, the best university for for uh post-grad studies. And so we hope that those young people will join uh in our studies at the graduate uh graduate school of theology and be part of uh getting credit for those classes.

BT Irwin:

Well, we will put uh contact information and links in the show notes. I bet people are going to want to check those out. And Dr. Brumbach, Dr. Moore, thank you for leading our imaginations on an expedition to the Bible lands today. It was good to have you.

Rick Brumback:

Thank you. Thank you very, very much.

BT Irwin:

Thank you to this episode's sponsor, Freed Hardman University, a proud partner of the Christian Chronicle Podcast, located in Henderson, Tennessee. Hardeman University is a private institution of higher education with deep roots and strong ties in the Church of Christ. It's been providing Christian higher education for over 150 years. Today it enrolls more than 1,800 undergraduate and 500 graduate students in programs like Arts and Humanities, Behavioral Sciences, Biblical Studies, Biological, Physical, and Human Sciences, Business, Communication and Literature, Creative and Communication Arts, Education, History, Philosophy, and Political Studies, Mathematics, Engineering, and Computer Science, Nursing, and a whole slate of pre-professional programs. The foundation, of course, for every student who matriculates at Freed Hardeman is required classes in Bible, along with Daily Chapel, keeping God at the center of campus culture and scholarship. If you're looking for a Christian college for you or for someone you know, Freed Hardaman University is a community where your life in Christ will form and mature in ways that will surprise you. Go to FHU.edu slash chronicle. That's FHU.edu slash chronicle to start your exploration of Freed Hardeman University. And if this is your first time listening to this show, we invite you to check out our full catalog of episodes at ChristianCronicle.org or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Until next time, may grace and peace be yours in abundance.